Subject: Re: [Ietf] New .mobi, .xxx, ... TLDs?

From: John C Klensin <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:42:38 -0400

Hi.

While this discussion on the IETF list has been very 
interesting, it is probably worth noting that the odds of ICANN 
staff following the IETF list to the extent needed to pull out 
this thread and make use of it are not high.

Instructions for making comments that they, and presumably the 
evaluators, will see are at

http://www.icann.org/tlds/stld-apps-19mar04/stld-public-comments.htm

That page contains both addresses for making general comments 
and addresses for specific comments on each proposal, along with 
pointers to archives of comments made so far.

The comment period on the specific applications and forms closes 
on 30 April (see
http://www.icann.org/tlds/new-stld-rfp/new-stld-application-parta-15dec03.htm
).  If those of you who have been carrying on this debate want 
even a chance that your positions will be carefully considered, 
I suggest going over to ICANN's site and posting appropriate 
summaries.

     john

_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

---

From: jfcm <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 18:36:30 +0200

>http://www.icann.org/tlds/stld-apps-19mar04/stld-public-comments.htm

Dear John,
it seems that (one of the) most important entry (the letter from ITU 
regarding the .tel/.mobi requests) cannot be accessed. 
http://forum.icann.org/lists/stld-rfp-general/msg00043.html
This seems to be a singular impeachment to a transparent debate on the matter.
Due to the delay I suggest that ITU sends IETF a copy while you might as a 
BoD Member ask staff to urgently correct that situation.
jfc

---

From: jfcm <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 18:36:30 +0200

Dear John,

---

From: Yakov Shafranovich <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:05:08 -0400

jfcm wrote:
> Due to the delay I suggest that ITU sends IETF a copy while you might as 
> a BoD Member ask staff to urgently correct that situation.
> jfc
> 

It seems to be working fine by me with a little tweaking. If you 
download the file in the message 
(http://forum.icann.org/lists/stld-rfp-general/bin00004.bin), and rename 
it to .pdf (under Windows), it opens just fine.

I attached a copy of it to this message.

Yakov
--
Yakov Shafranovich / asrg <at> shaftek.org
SolidMatrix Technologies, Inc. / research <at> solidmatrix.com
"Some lies are easier to believe than the truth" (Dune)
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From: Yakov Shafranovich <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:05:08 -0400

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---

From: John C Klensin <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:04:20 -0400

Jefsey (and others),

Due to prompt action on the part of ICANN staff once this was 
called to their attention, the problem is now fixed and, due to 
some spam-cleaning done at the same time, the posting is now at 
http://forum.icann.org/lists/stld-rfp-general/msg00039.html/.

The implication of your posting that this might have been 
deliberate (at least as I read "singular impeachment") does not 
appear to me to be justified by anything I have seen.   Instead, 
I suspect that the problem results from sloppy or incorrect 
implementations of the standards: software that relies on 
content-type information (in either email or HTTP) would 
presumably have no trouble opening the original message 
attachment.  Software that relies, instead, on file "type" 
suffixes or other sometimes-random information, as much 
Windows-based software appears to do, can get itself and the 
user rather throughly confused.  It is hard to realistically 
blame that problem on some malice or conspiracy at ICANN (or the 
ITU, or anywhere else in that set of processes).

People will have to decide for themselves how "most important" 
this entry is.   Personally, I found it a bit circuitous, asking 
for discussion (clearly a good idea) rather than really taking a 
position.  I was,  however, pleased to see the ITU Secretary 
General recognizing IETF's role in ENUM... that part of the 
story has sometimes gotten lost.

And, contrary to your note, the posted note appears to comment 
directly only on one of the two TEL. proposals and not at all on 
the MOBI. one.  Whether one can impute a conspiracy to that, or 
whether the ITU really only sees a significant problem with that 
one proposal, is something you would have to address with them.

regards,
   john

--On Friday, 30 April, 2004 18:36 +0200 jfcm <[email-masked]> 
wrote:

> it seems that (one of the) most important entry (the letter
> from ITU regarding the .tel/.mobi requests) cannot be
> accessed.
> Due to the delay I suggest that ITU sends IETF a copy while
> you might as a BoD Member ask staff to urgently correct that
> situation.
> jfc

---

From: John C Klensin <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:04:20 -0400

Jefsey (and others),

regards,
   john

---

From: jfcm <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 23:35:34 +0200

At 21:04 30/04/04, John C Klensin wrote:
>Jefsey (and others),
>Due to prompt action on the part of ICANN staff once this was called to 
>their attention, the problem is now fixed and, due to some spam-cleaning 
>done at the same time, the posting is now at 

Dear John
Thank you for that.

>The implication of your posting that this might have been deliberate (at 
>least as I read "singular impeachment") does not appear to me to be 
>justified by anything I have seen.

I only meant (I just checked it in dictionary) "deviating from the usual or 
expected; odd. See Synonyms at strange".  But it is good you understood it 
your way, got the problem fixed and have now your response in the records. 
This will not be implied further on.

>It is hard to realistically blame that problem on some malice or 
>conspiracy at ICANN (or the ITU, or anywhere else in that set of processes).

True. That possible future blame is now defused ...  except that now I just 
loop back in the mail without getting the attachment :-) May be only 
because of my PC?

>People will have to decide for themselves how "most important" this entry 
>is.   Personally, I found it a bit circuitous, asking for discussion 
>(clearly a good idea) rather than really taking a position.  I 
>was,  however, pleased to see the ITU Secretary General recognizing IETF's 
>role in ENUM... that part of the story has sometimes gotten lost.
>
>And, contrary to your note, the posted note appears to comment directly 
>only on one of the two TEL. proposals and not at all on the MOBI. 
>one.  Whether one can impute a conspiracy to that, or whether the ITU 
>really only sees a significant problem with that one proposal, is 
>something you would have to address with them.

Please understand you are at advantage: you were able to read the document. 
I was not.
Robert's mail says "Applications" (plural).

As you know in intelligence 80% is the fact there was an exchange, and 20% 
the content.
- the fact there is a letter is important (personal readings are less)
- the fact you speak of "conspiracy" is important (even if I don't 
understand about what/by who it could be). It means the matter is touchy.

Let build on that. There is a need to talk says Robert Shaw. Good point: 
you accept to talk. Maybe will you recall that they asked the same in 2000? 
I read positively what you say they said: (a) it means there is a dialog 
(b) this means they do not take position and respect the Internet autonomy 
(c) their 2000's position lead to ENUM. This ICANN / ITU / IETF way was 
positive last time. Why not this time, too?

(BTW, IMHO ITU is no more at ease than ICANN with the current post-WSIS 
global situation ).

All what I fear is that under such circumstances and pressures, someone 
takes a wrong decision he would not have taken otherwise. No one wants to 
harm the DNS and endanger a key thing which works. We all agree with that. 
But a debate is open on propositions which may harm the DNS. This debate 
was open by ICANN, so it rises questions. Basically, why is this debate 
about transport protocol being described in the TLD instead of being 
described in the scheme, happening now? It should have been prevented by 
the wording of the call for propositions or by an ICANN document, proposed 
and discussed by the GNSO, reviewed on technical parts by IETF. It should 
have described what is the DNS semantic and what is expected from 
propositions etc. If I refer myself to ICP-3, I tend to think ICANN failed 
its own precaution criteria for testing, yet here we are not testing.

Actually, I am surprised we have a second TLD round, while the work on the 
evaluation report on the first round is not even started. Why that? Is 
there some pressure on ICANN or is it ICANN putting some pressure? In both 
cases one can nurture some concerns. I have no bad idea about ICANN, but I 
see that .mobi, .tel and .mail would be catastrophes for a global DNS, not 
to speak of political consequences which are not our concern here.

I also see that ICANN still has today the capacity to hurt the DNS in 
accepting them.  What I want is that this technical major threat on the 
global internet stability is removed. And that this kind of matter is 
handled by a world consensus where IETF may have its say.as well as ITU on 
behalf of Govs, Consumers organizations and Lingual organizations like the 
one we created (Eurolinc) with Louis Pouzin, J-L Grange etc.

jfc

---

From: jfcm <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 23:35:34 +0200

Dear John
Thank you for that.

jfc